On firearms in Mexico

After this post a commenter said If anything bigger than .22 and 20ga are outlawed, then what do they use to hunt with? There are TONS of places in Mexico where you can take your hunting rifle or 12ga shotgun and go hunting.

What, only tourists can have guns? That doesn't seem very likely to me.

I think something's wrong with the claim that they are against the law.

I'd read about the situation for firearms owners in Mexico, but had never looked up specifics: when someone who's been there says "Unless you like the idea of a cellmate named Juan..." I tend to listen to them. So I contacted Mark in Mexico (where I found this the other day which started this)and asked him for some information: and, being the shameless link whostout fellow he is, he promply wrote back. First he pointed me to this at Packing.org, which includes this from the State Department:
The Department of State warns US citizens against taking any type of firearm or ammunition into Mexico without prior written authorization from the Mexican authorities. Entering Mexico with a firearm or a single round of ammunition carries a penalty of up to five years in jail, even if the firearm or ammunition is taken into Mexico unintentionally. The Mexican government strictly enforces its laws restricting the entry of firearms and ammunition along all land borders and at air and seaports. This has resulted in arrests, convictions, and long prison sentences for US citizens, even those who unintentionally crossed the border with firearms or ammunition in their possession.

And this section From a Mexican Lawyer

I am a Mexican Lawyer and I know the federal firearms law well, here is a summary The right to own firearms is granted by the Constitution but it does not include military firearms which are according to Federal Law any firearm which can fire full auto regardless of caliber, semi auto pistols in 9mm, 38 Super and larger, 357 magnum revolvers and larger, shotguns larger than 12 gauge or with a barrel shorter than 25", rifles in caliber .223, 7.62 and 30 Caliber carbines. Legal guns to own are 380s, 38 Special revolvers, rifles up to .30 caliber (larger ones are authorized for hunting abroad)and shotguns.

Permits for the transportation and use of firearms are issued for 1 year and for up to 10 firearms for each use (hunting, shooting at your club or national competition), these permits are very easy to obtain if you belong to a shooting club. There is no legal limit as to how many firearms you can own, but once you have 10 you cannot get a permit to buy more from the only authorized dealer, you can however legally buy more from other people. There are also collectors permits which allow you to own all kinds of firearms including military ones, they are also not hard to obtain except for the fact that the military authority will inspect the location to make sure it has the necessary security measures to avoid the guns being stolen.

CCW are issued but are hard to obtain although not impossible, and if denied they can be appealed at a District Court, although few people do. Until 2002 CCW’s authorized military caliber pistols, but they were all cancelled and issued 380s.

Ammunition can be bought at certain sporting goods stores, you only need ID and a copy of the firearm registration document, limits to purchase are 500.22s, 200 center fire (rifle or pistol) and 1000 shotgun shells, these limits are per gun per month (if you own 3 shotguns you can buy 3000 shells per month).New firearms can be bought from UCAM (Sporting shotguns and rifles and Glock, Walther, Taurus, Beretta and CZ 380 pistols.

Many people carry without a license and if caught usually the gun is confiscated only with no criminal charges, and although large caliber pistols are outlawed every self respecting male in the rural areas usually owns a 38 Super.(emphasis mine)

Which sounds pretty straightforward. Strange, but straightforward. Except that MiM says
Even the link above seems to hint that owning a weapon or weapons is merely a procedural process. It's not. You've got to pay and pay and pay to get these permits. That's why almost nobody ever bothers. The only people who can, more or less, follow the proper procedures and get their permits in some reasonable timeframe, like in their own lifetime, are those who are politically well connected. Everybody else has to pay bribes to get the process moving.

There were some mutterings by Fox and the PAN 2 years ago about lightening up on firearms ownership and licensing procedures. It never happened. Having an armed populace in Mexico anything even approaching that of the US citizenry frightens the politicians into recurring nightmares.

He includes this from the Mexican Constitution:
Article 10. The inhabitants of the United Mexican States are entitled to have arms of any kind in their possession for their protection and legitimate defense, except such as are expressly forbidden by law, or which the nation may reserve for the exclusive use of the Army, Navy, or National Guard; but they may not carry arms within inhabited places without complying with police regulations.

Don't you just love that wording? "..entitled to have...", "...for their protection and legitimate defense, except..." Just the kind of wording the GFWs would love to change our Second Amendment to. As MiM put it, If you take even a cursory look at that, you can see that the law can be written, or worse, enforced, in a manner to make the ownership and/or carrying of a weapon almost 100% illegal. And Mexico has proceeded to just about do that.
Which I have no doubt is why it was worded this way. Ours says ..."The Right of the people to keep and bear arms...", their people are 'entitled' for 'protection and legitimate defense', except where it doesn't suit the government.

And pay attention to that bit from the State Department: people have been arrested for a single fired .22 case that had fallen under a seat. And had bloody nightmares over it. Including that BATFE and various politicians have decided that such a 'serious criminal conviction' in Mexico is sufficient to end your right to arms here in the U.S.

So it appears that it's largely a matter of if you have the money/connections you can get a permit for damn near anything; or if you're a local the police don't see as a problem you can buy something to hunt/control pests/protect the home and get away with it(unless the police feel a need to show their zeal or your piss someone off, or etc.). But you can have that permit yanked in a second if someone doesn't get their bribe or your 'friend' doesn't win reelection(or gets indicted), and if you have something without benefit of the permit you can find yourself in jail at any time.

And I'd have to say that if you're a U.S. citazen in Mexico to hunt, make sure of two things:
That you have ALL the possible paperwork filled out and signed and officially noted, and
Have plenty of bribe money.


By the way, just to demonstrate that places like Detroit and Chicago and New York Effin' City(thanks to Kim for the term) are not along in bullshit publicity exercises involving firearms, check this:
Anyway, Ebrard and Ortega, demonstrating their newly awakened interest in truth, justice and the Mexican way, launched an operation against the street vendors in and around Mexico City's center. They sent in a highly trained force of 150 officers to sweep up and confiscate . . .

877 toy guns.