Monday, November 05, 2012

A reply from Penn Square Mall

It was suggested in the past that, if I got a response, it would be corporate boilerplate; they were right:
Possession of any weapon at our malls, whether concealed or displayed openly, is in violation of mall policy.  This policy is intended first and foremost to maintain a safe, secure and comfortable environment at our malls, which has always been our top priority, and to avoid any situation that could potentially place at risk the safety of our shoppers and employees.

With rare exception, our malls are private property, and like virtually every other facility in the community that is accessible by the public, ownership/management has the right to prohibit the possession of weapons, both displayed or concealed, other than licensed weapons carried by law enforcement personnel.

We recognize that everyone does not endorse such a policy.  However, it is the one our company embraces and enforces at each of our properties and which we believe is in the best interest of those who work and visit there.

Thanks for your inquiry.

"We don't trust people like you to carry, it's not safe, so leave them at home or stay out."

My first thought, among others, is "So you plan on protecting everyone in the parking lot?  Or are you going to post "If attacked or robbed in our parking lot, you're on your own" signs to make sure everyone understands you'd rather have them robbed/beaten/whatever than have them protect themselves?"
So I'm giving it some thought on how to reply.  Suggestions?  


Ben C said...

Perhaps something politely worded about how much you appreciate it they are so willing assume the civil liabilities associated with guaranteeing the safety of all the employees and guests on their property, including the parking lots.

Anonymous said...

I'd suggest following Ben C's lead, but form it in a manner that requires them to respond.

Maybe along the lines of: "Since Penn Square, by implementation of their no firearms policy which denies state-licensed concealed firearms carriers the right to carry their firearm on Penn Square property according to your letter of DATE HERE which states in part "This policy is intended first and foremost to maintain a safe, secure and comfortable environment at our malls, which has always been our top priority, and to avoid any situation that could potentially place at risk the safety of our shoppers and employees", has assumed liability for the risks and safety issues encountered by the invited guests to Penn Square property, I would like some insurance information:

1)Who is the liability insurance carrier retained by Penn Square?
2) What is the contact information for that carrier, specifically, for claims?
3)What are the liability limits of that policy?
4)Should an invited guest to Penn Square property be subjected to risk(s) and/or safety issues resulting in injury or death, what is the process for filing a liability claim?
5) What are the liability limits of Penn Square properties regarding liability coverage in property utilized by individual tenants?

A point here is every mall is an "attractive nuisance" and willingly invites guests - specifically, the patrons of the stores in the mall - to enter and use the property in whatever the appropriate approved method(s) is. In short, they ask you to come to their mall and spend money, which can easily be confirmed with copies of their advertising.

Another issue is where mall liability stops and individual store liability starts. I would suspect that Penn Square and Billy Bob's Ice Cream Shoppe both have liability for risk(s) in that the mall owns the space where Billy Bob's is and Billy Bob's operates a licensed business in that space.

I'd suggest checking with an attorney to put the letter together.

It might be good to avoid asking how that anti-policy is enforced and leave them to figure that out. Should Bad Bart enter the mall and, in conflict with the mall's established and recorded policies, shoot the place up, leading to you suffering consequences (which could even be mental stress because it made you fearful of all shopping centers, etc., blah, blah) you've got grounds for a liability suit.

Other issue is why you would patronize an anti-gun mall in the first place? If there are stores in the mall you want to patronize, notify them - in writing to their corporate offices - why you (and by extension, all your legally-licensed CCW friends and acquaintences)no longer shop at their store in the mall.

Keep us posted on how they, and corporate offices of some of the stores, respond.

Anonymous said...

In the interim, I suggest going here:

Find your state, and, in addition to noting their response you blog (and the blogs of others in your area), post the response in the forum. Start a new thread and let those who read it also send letters/posts to Penn State Mall. It may help if they knew how much business they're losing.

Dan said...

This fight is a "tilting at windmills fight". Hell will freeze over before places like malls, hospitals etc. publicly state they will allow CCW on their premises. The rationale being that if they post NOBODY can be armed and someone ignores that and shoots the place up they are not legally liable. If they publicly state they WILL allow weapons and someone shoots the place up they will be sued and in the current kangaroo court systme almost certainly lose. To these businesses it's a risk management to minimize the odds of losing $$$. That's all they care about. The personal safety of their customers and employees is irrelevant.

Anonymous said...

Gun surrender protection contract
____________________[Legal name of entity forbidding firearms] agrees that a special relationship exists between our company/ organization/department and
____________________[Name of individual] by virtue of his/her complying with our demand to not possess firearms on our premises. Because we have demanded that he/she be personally defenseless, we hereby agree to assume responsibility for his/her personal safety and protection, and admit liability with attendant legal and financial responsibility should we fail in this duty.
Authorized representative/Date

Firehand said...

Y'know, I had not joined that forum before, for some reason. Just registered and posted the reply.