Wednesday, March 14, 2012

In the 'Self-Defenders' category, you need to read this

now, or soon as you can. And this. Good information.

An excerpt which conflicts with a lot of the usual advice:
When to draw

Despite warnings I often see on the Net I have yet to encounter an instance in which a hold up man called the police to report his intended victim threatened to shoot him. Thugs do not want to come into contact with the police. They may already be wanted or realize chances are good they have been identified in a recent robbery. Or what ever. They are not going to call the police if you draw on them.

Supposed two guys are approaching you in a parking lot and do the classic fan out maneuver. You indicate you have a weapon by clearing your gun hand and fanning your jacket at them. They are not discouraged. DRAW!

I am not saying you should pull your gun out, assume a Weaver stance, and scream "That's close enough motherfuckers!" What I am saying is draw your gun and hold it beside your leg as you start to move to cover. I am very fond of telephone poles. Anything will do though. They will see this. They will remember they have to be somewhere else. They will not call the police.

Then you can just put your gun back in the holster and go back to whatever you were doing like nothing happened. Why? Because nothing did happen. A happening is when shots are fired.

Do not hesitate to draw. If you are somewhere you are supposed to be and someone appears who is not supposed to be there like a closed business show him the end of your gun. Could it be Mother Teresa looking for her lost cat behind your closed business? No it is some motherfucker up to no good. He won't call the police to report he was prowling a location when a guy ran him off.

Thanks to Tam for pointing to them.

6 comments:

Sailorcurt said...

I haven't read the links yet, I will, but I wanted to put in my 2 cents based on your excerpt.

My philosophy has always been to call 911 immediately if something like that happens, even if no shots are fired.

Sure, the bad guys don't want to have face to face interaction with the cops, but what's stopping them from calling 911 and anonymously reporting a man fitting your description that's brandishing a gun?

You may not be charged, you may not be arrested, but you may very well be hassled, you may have ten cops swoop in and draw down on you and you may be placed in a life threatening situation where any misinterpreted move could be an excuse to shoot you dead.

No, it's never happened to me. I've heard stories of things like that happening, but only hearsay.

But is it worth taking the chance?

Thugs may not be brave, but sometimes they can be vindictive. Combine that with a slightly overzealous police department in a city that is anti-gun at it's core like the one I live in and there could be trouble.

Not to mention that reporting it may get the guys caught and prevent them from trying it again on someone else someday.

In my opinion, enforcing societal mores is a responsibility that we all hold. Just because we delegate a portion of that responsibility to people we hire for the purpose, doesn't relieve us of our basic responsibilities.

Sailorcurt said...

OK, I've read it now.

Good stuff.

I think his point wasn't to not call 911, but to not hesitate to draw.

I agree with that point, I just think it's a good idea to call the police and tell them about it right away after its over.

Sigivald said...

Sure, the bad guys don't want to have face to face interaction with the cops, but what's stopping them from calling 911 and anonymously reporting a man fitting your description that's brandishing a gun?

Why would they even bother to? And note that they're not rocket scientists, and there aren't really a lot of payphones these days.

They're not going to "anonymously" call 911 on their cell phones.

(On the other hand, you have an indirect point - if there was anyone else around, they might have seen it, and might not have any idea about self defense and call 911 on you for more or less innocent reasons.)

Firehand said...

I haven't read of any actual cases; have heard that it's happened a time or two: "Hey, sumdood just pulled a gun on me in the parking lot!" Would generally seem to be avoided if you immediately call: "I'm in the parking lot of/in front of 'X', some guy just tried to rob me."

Probably makes a difference where you live, too; in Oklahoma much less chance of the local cops having a bad reaction to you; some places, I can see the 'run the bad guy off and then get the hell out' route having advantages.

Sailorcurt said...

Why would they even bother to? And note that they're not rocket scientists, and there aren't really a lot of payphones these days.

As I said, vindictiveness. They don't like being "dissed".

At least that's what I've been told. Don't have close personal relationships with many thugs.

As far as the cell phone thing goes, according to the cops that I talk to, thugs love those "pay as you go" phones you can get from 7-11 for $20 and ditch when you think it might be burned.

And who says they were really "thugs" anyway? Perhaps it was all just a misunderstanding and the person you pulled on was understandably indignant about the situation? In that case, it would be VERY likely for them to call the cops.

My weak rationalizations notwithstanding, you're probably right. The odds of that scenario actually happening are pretty slim...but again the question is: is taking the chance worth it? I live in one of the three most liberal areas of the state. Gun use is definitely not looked favorably upon by the powers that be here.

If I'm ever involved in an incident like that, I think I'd rather be sure that the cops hear my side of the story first and not take any chances with itchy trigger fingers if they hear about it from a less forthcoming source and decide to treat me like the aggressor

And you make an excellent point about bystanders as well.

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